A Problem with Abraham's Teachings

[Chariot]

Sometimes it seems to me that Abraham's statements are too absolute. Take the following daily quote for example.

When you're vibrating purely, you get only what's a match to that. It's your ambivalence: "I like that but I don't like that... I like that but I don't like that..." that keeps what you like and what you don't like coming at you all the time. You don't have to "turn the other cheek" when you are in vibrational harmony only with what you want. Then, only what you want comes.
--- Abraham

Excerpted from the workshop in Chicago, IL on Sunday, November 1st, 1998 #416

This quote seems like a contradiction. It makes it seem like it's possible for us to attract only what we want and avoid what we don't want. Yet on the other hand Abraham says we came to experience contrast because it creates desires to focus upon thereby providing platforms for our continual expansion.

So if experiencing contrast is necessary to create new rockets of desire, why impress upon us the idea that we can avoid contrast (what we don't like) and attract only what we want? I mean contrast is a part of this physical experience is it not?

On the earlier 5 disc introduction set Abraham even states there is no place where only pure positive experience exist so stop looking for it for the balance of the universe says that positive and negative exist together.

Even Esther and Jerry experience unwanted things. So why would Abraham tell us that when we are in vibrational harmony only with what we want. Then, only what we want comes? That makes is sound like we can avoid the unwanted and only attract what is wanted, and that contradicts what they said on the 5 disc introduction set.

I find myself getting frustrated because it seems like we're being told what we want to hear, but when I stand back and look at the larger picture as a whole, contradictions keep showing up.

:scratch:

[Rodney]

What do you want that you can't seem to manifest?

[Chariot]

It's not so much about what I want as it is about my perception of the quote. The quote appears to imply that it's possible to attract only what is wanted and avoid what is unwanted, and yet contrast is necessary in order to know what we want. So when the quote says " when you come into vibrational harmony only with what you want. Then, only what you want comes."

That statement comes across as too absolute as if it's possible for us to get only and only what we want while never experiencing what we don't want. Yet how could that be if contrast is necessary to create preferences and new desires? Maybe I'm interpreting the quote wrong, but that's what I get from it.

[Wideyed]

Ok, so basically u get what u want but then your always gonna step outside the vortex a little at some point and gather some more data. U will then use that to focus on what u want again. that is all.

[Chariot]

Ok, so basically u get what u want but then your always gonna step outside the vortex a little at some point and gather some more data. U will then use that to focus on what u want again. that is all.

Yeah, that's how I perceive it, and that quote appears to say it's possible to get just what we want without experiencing what we don't want, but that's not really true because experiencing what we don't want is important in that it's how we create new preferences.

[Rodney]

It's not so much about what I want...

Of course it is. If you had what you wanted, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You would be too busy enjoying yourself.

So what is it that you really want?

[asjairok]

Chariot with no name,
for me it's not contradictal, at all.
They say :
when you're in alignementYou don't have to "turn the other cheek"...-meaning, if you're not, do something to get there.
Ana ;)

[Chariot]

Of course it is. If you had what you wanted, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You would be too busy enjoying yourself.

So what is it that you really want?

Hmmm... I guess what I really want is for the teachings of Abraham to maintain a consistent logic without contradicting itself. And when I hear that contrast is necessary for our expansion and growth, and I can attract only what I want, which is like avoiding contrast, then that seems to be a contradiction. It's like that statement gets us thinking that it's possible to get only what we want without experiencing what we don't want and how can that be if we need contrast to focus?

I love the teachings of Abraham, but sometimes it feels like they keep changing the rules and it leaves me feeling like we're being toyed with. What I want is clarity about that quote. Is it saying that we can attract what we want and only what we want without experiencing what we don't want? And if it is, how could that be? if contrast is necessary for knowing what we want and for growth and expansion, how would it be possible to get what we want and only what we want without experiencing contrast?

I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it...lol.

[Rodney]

So what you want is certainty. Certainty comes from within when you recognize that you no longer need any teachings. A lot of our members find that they have outgrown Abraham. Why listen to Abraham when we have our own guidance? Fuck em! :namaste:

[Chariot]

So what you want is certainty. Certainty comes from within when you recognize that you no longer need any teachings. A lot of our members find that they have outgrown Abraham. Why listen to Abraham when we have our own guidance? Fuck em! :namaste:

Interesting...lol :facelol:

[Chariot]

Thank you skib. That makes a lot of sense as it ties in with understanding the wisdom of uncertainty...;)

[Bodhi]

When you're vibrating purely, you get only what's a match to that. It's your ambivalence: "I like that but I don't like that... I like that but I don't like that..." that keeps what you like and what you don't like coming at you all the time. You don't have to "turn the other cheek" when you are in vibrational harmony only with what you want. Then, only what you want comes.
--- Abraham

Excerpted from the workshop in Chicago, IL on Sunday, November 1st, 1998 #416

:scratch:


So interesting how we all hear the same things differently.

To me, this quote says that when we stay in a good-feeling state of being long enough (inspite of circumstance), eventually we don't have to turn the other cheek any more, because our vibe becomes so pure we can only attract what we want.

[Chariot]

So interesting how we all hear the same things differently.

To me, this quote says that when we stay in a good-feeling state of being long enough (inspite of circumstance), eventually we don't have to turn the other cheek any more, because our vibe becomes so pure we can only attract what we want.


Yes, but if what you want is to experience physical life without any contrast, then that cannot be no matter how pure your vibration because contrast is necessary for focus and expansion. So in an absolute sense, that quote doesn't add up because you can't always attract only what you want.

[cigi]

Yes, but if what you want is to experience physical life without any contrast, that cannot be because contrast is necessary for creating wants and desires. So if anyone wants to experience a physical life without contrast, then that cannot be no matter how pure their vibration because contrast is necessary for focus and expansion. So in an absolute sense, that quote doesn't add up because you can't always attract only what you want.

Physical IS contrast. Think about it...

[Chariot]

Physical IS contrast. Think about it...

Don't need to think about that one... It's pretty obvious...;)

[cigi]

Don't need to think about that one... It's pretty obvious...;)

Clearly it isn't obvious.;)

If physical is contrast, then how do you desire a contrast-free physical experience? You don't. It's an oxymoron.

[cigi]

i'm not seeing the contrast issue in it at all, really :scratch: it's more about clarity and your belief systems & getting it straight within yourself, so that your outcome is what is desired.

It's a semantics game. He is trying to use faulty-logic to debunk abe.

Yes, but if what you want is to experience physical life without any contrast, then that cannot be no matter how pure your vibration because contrast is necessary for focus and expansion. So in an absolute sense, that quote doesn't add up because you can't always attract only what you want.


You can't have a pure vibe on a contradiction.

[Chariot]

Clearly it isn't obvious.;)

If physical is contrast, then how do you desire a contrast-free physical experience? You don't. It's an oxymoron.

Exactly, and that's my point.

For example, Abe says we can be do or have anything we want. So what if someone wants to have a physical life experience without contrast? Well they can't because physical is contrast. So the statement " We can be do or have anything" isn't absolute. And no matter how much you're in vibrational harmony with having a physical life without contrast, you're not going to get it. So how can the statement "when you are in vibrational harmony only with what you want. Then, only what you want comes" be true if someone wants to experience physical life without contrast?

And as others have pointed out, to have no contrast means your dead, but even that may not be true because Abraham says contrast does exist in non physical. It's just that from our physical vantage point we wouldn't notice it. But that's another whole topic unto itself.

Also, it's been pointed out that this quote is not in it's entire original context so that may have a bearing on all of this.

It's a semantics game. He is trying to use faulty-logic to debunk abe.




You can't have a pure vibe on a contradiction.

I'm not trying to debunk anything. If I didn't believe in Abraham's message I wouldn't even be here on this forum. I don't believe in the teachings of fundamentalist christians so I don't go to their forums at all. If I don't believe in something, I don't go around harassing just for the fun of it. That's not my style.

I'm not writing about any of this because I'm trying to perfect my Abraham skills either. It's too tiring and I'm over all of that. I'm simply pointing out that over time there appears to be contradictions that show up. Study any spiritual teachings long enough and there are always paradoxes and contradictions that eventually show up.

It's sort of like everything comes around full circle and you end up standing right where you started but somehow expanded in your knowledge.

[cigi]

Exactly, and that's my point.

oxymoron:
conjoining contradictory terms (as in `deafening silence')
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn (http://www.google.com/url?ei=fQ7RS9b5G4L-8AbDuKQM&sig2=4yYqEoJmWS0MdQN40fyL3A&q=http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Doxymoron&ei=fQ7RS9b5G4L-8AbDuKQM&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&ved=0CA0QpAMoAA&usg=AFQjCNG4P0VZkN9HYiyi6u1iNv9TS2PwNQ)

Your point makes your point moot.:rolleyes:



For example, Abe says we can be do or have anything we want. So what if someone wants to have a physical life experience without contrast? Well they can't because physical is contrast. So the statement " We can be do or have anything" isn't absolute. And no matter how much you're in vibrational harmony with having a physical life without contrast, you're not going to get it. So how can the statement "when you are in vibrational harmony only with what you want. Then, only what you want comes" be true if someone wants to experience physical life without contrast?

Contrast is anything which is NOT YOU. To have a physical experience without contrast means there is no environment, nothing outside of you, no other thing. To continue to harp on this point is senseless. Why don't you just say, "I wanna be blue AND I wanna be red. That makes purple? Oh well, guess everything is wrong here except my thinking.":facelol:


Also, it's been pointed out that this quote is not in it's entire original context so that may have a bearing on all of this.

It doesn't matter what context you put the quote in as long as it's a sensible argument. What you are saying makes no sense.

[Chariot]

oxymoron:
conjoining contradictory terms (as in `deafening silence')
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn (http://www.google.com/url?ei=fQ7RS9b5G4L-8AbDuKQM&sig2=4yYqEoJmWS0MdQN40fyL3A&q=http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Doxymoron&ei=fQ7RS9b5G4L-8AbDuKQM&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&ved=0CA0QpAMoAA&usg=AFQjCNG4P0VZkN9HYiyi6u1iNv9TS2PwNQ)

Your point makes your point moot.:rolleyes:




Contrast is anything which is NOT YOU. To have a physical experience without contrast means there is no environment, nothing outside of you, no other thing. To continue to harp on this point is senseless. Why don't you just say, "I wanna be blue AND I wanna be red. That makes purple? Oh well, guess everything is wrong here except my thinking.":facelol:



It doesn't matter what context you put the quote in as long as it's a sensible argument. What you are saying makes no sense.

I'm using the word contrast in the same way Abraham uses the term to refer to unwanted things or experiences.

If it makes no sense to you and that's fine. Others on this forum have made some very valid points which indicates to me they got it. So if you really feel I'm making no sense, then why continue this dialogue. Why carry on a discussion with someone who doesn't make sense? Is it that important for you to be right, or can you try to understand what I was initially getting at?

[Chariot]

Actually, Chariot - Abe doesn't define or use contrast as unwanted things or experiences. They do, however, recognize and acknowledge that this is how WE view contrast. We apply the meaning --- it's all about our perspective. Potato / Patahto. That's why they ask, "Are you enjoying the contrast of your time / space reality."

Hmmm... it seems to me that they're using the word contrast to describe what we deem as wanted or unwanted. They're always making jokes about it during their opening conference lectures. Contrast is the play of what is wanted against what is unwanted.

The physical experience on planet earth simply would not Be without contrast. It is inherent for the definement of our experiences and most importantly for expansion, which you know.

It is not, however, a contradiction. You Can, Be and Do whatever --- but without contrast you just don't get to do it in the physical experience on planet earth for very long. But, you can do it. You simply get to have a super quick physical life. And, since there's no death - you can do it again if you want.

But you cannot always be do or have whatever you want. The example I gave regarding living a physical life without contrast illustrates that point. Even if someone has an extremely short life, they're still going to experience contrast that causes them to choose returning to non physical over remaining in physical. You cannot have life without awareness and awareness requires contrast for focusing. Without contrast, there can be no life, and that applies to even very short lives.

So if someone has a desire to live a physical life without contrast, they won't be able to achieve it because the very idea defies what is necessary to give awareness its focus and reference points. So the fact that it's impossible for anyone to live a physical life without contrast, even if they want it, means that we actually cannot be, do, or have anything. We can be, do, or have a lot of things, but not anything.

It's also interesting to note that contrast is also necessary for non physical focus. I personally asked Abraham about this when I was in the hotseat and they said contrast exist in non physical, but from our physical perspective, we wouldn't notice the contrast non physical experiences.

Another clear example of how we can't always be, do, or have anything is this. Say someone wants to have the ability to think someone else's thoughts for them. Abraham has already stated that we cannot create in another person's experience because we cannot think their thoughts for them. So if I wanted to have the ability to think someone else's thoughts for them, I'm sh!t outta luck. That's something I'm not gonna be able to do, be, or have. So obviously we cannot truly be, do, or have anything.

Or if someone wants to be a world class classical ballet dancer in a major ballet company, but they've had their legs amputated, that's something they're not going to be able to be, do, or have.

The interesting thing about making a statement that " there's nothing you cannot be, do, or have," is that it sounds really great and is therefore an excellent marketing technique. But it's not something that's actually always true.

[Chamber]

Contrast is the play of what is wanted against what is unwanted.



And that is the subversive rub. <cash register emote>

Contrast is simply "That which you are not"

This is why the Abe teachings are inherently flawed.

And I will challenge Abe....and variation of Abe....or any variation of Esther or Jerry etc on the subject.

Abe and The Secret had their uses....and their time is over.

[Chariot]

Chariot, aren’t you in enough trouble thinking your own thoughts?

That made me laugh...:facelol: Yeah I get it and I do believe in the majority of Abraham's teachings. I just think there are these small areas that don't quite add up. It's no matter though because the majority of it has much to offer. I just like to stir things up and get us thinking. No philosophy is flawless, and no philosophy is perfect. I still hold by my initial points though.


.

[Chariot]

I mean, using the example of not being able to think someone's thoughts for them as proof that we can't have absolutely everything is r e a l l y stretching it.

I don't think it's stretching it because it refers back to a topic mentioned on one of the old skool Abraham cd's. It's just a way of illustrating that saying we can be, do, or have anything we want (in this life time) is really an overstatement. I'm not here to argue or be whipped into shape on the ways of Abraham. I know it already. I just think it's interesting to point out loop holes and claims that over step reasonable logic and critical thinking.

Telling me to stop it and just feel good doesn't cut it because I don't feel bad. I'm just refining my understanding of these teachings that's all.




You need to read what I wrote, Chariot. I didn't say Abe doesn't talk about contrast as you've described above. I said they don't define it the same way WE do, which is why they recognize our experience.





No. Your thread should be called "I have a problem with understanding Abraham's Teachings." You're assuming contrast is unwanted. If you can be, do and have - and contrast is part of the inherent make-up of that, you are getting exactly what you want.





If you hold a desire to be physical, then you are equally holding the desire of contrast. It really is that simple.





You'd just have to hold the desire to be that person instead of you. But then you'd be them and not you.




Are you serious?

YouTube- She without arm, he without leg - ballet - Hand in Hand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnLVRQCjh8c)

Wow... that's very impressive and I'm touched that you would go thru all that trouble for me, but I meant both legs were amputated not one. And part of the dream is that they would work with a major mainstream ballet company on tour in a major production like the Nutcracker or something.

Now find me a kid that literally changes into a bird and flies away. That's a change that isn't going to happen outside the realm of a magic trick no matter how pure his vibration. There are limits to all of this and that's okay, it's just a matter of working within those limits to achieve something you actually belief you can achieve.

.

[cigi]

YouTube- It's Pimpin, Pimpin!! Kat Williams- Poor Little Tink Tink


:rolleyes: yep. anything.

[cigi]

Wow... that's very impressive and I'm touched that you would go thru all that trouble for me, but I meant both legs were amputated not one. Now find me a kid that literally changes into a bird and flies away. That's a change that isn't going to happen outside the realm of a magic trick no matter how pure his vibration. There are limits to all of this and that's okay, it's just a matter of working within those limits to achieve something you actually belief you can achieve.

.

*Now find me this, now find me that. After all, I'm refining my beliefs.*

No video is gonna be good enough.

Please remember in your search for humility - that thinking you are an exception to the rule of being supported by creation, is actually the most arrogant attitude you can have, because you are saying is that you, out of all creation, are singled out to be the exception where creation doesn't work for you. That is arrogance.

~Bashar

[Bodhi]

Yes, but if what you want is to experience physical life without any contrast, then that cannot be no matter how pure your vibration because contrast is necessary for focus and expansion. So in an absolute sense, that quote doesn't add up because you can't always attract only what you want.

Chariot,

Even when we manage to have a pure vibration on one thing, let's say attracting abundance, or a pure vibration on many things at once, there are still new things we have to get into alignment with ... The "only what you want" part always expands

because we keep shooting new rockets of desire every second (whether we are aware of that or not)...

or in other words,

because we are eternally expanding.

[AttractionFactor]

WWAD? If this is a religon, let's take it to the next step! Make sure your WWAD bracelet fits in with your fashion accessories.:)

[Chariot]

Btw, Chariot - I meant to ask you earlier which workshop you were called to the hotseat so I could listen to the whole interaction. I pretty much have the whole collection, so unless you spoke with them really recently, I probably have it in my library.

In light of the framework of this thread, I choose to keep that private, but if you focus on wanting to hear it, and release it to the universe, you'll be guided to it.

;)

[Chariot]

It's not so much a matter of me wanting to be right as it is knowing that I am right. Otherwise these forums would be flooded with Aber's telling stories of how their wildest fantasies have come true. Yet here we are some 20 years later still getting pretty much the same outcomes in spite of knowing what we supposedly know.

Even the second universal law states: "That which is given thought to and allowed or expected is." And there are many beliefs that are tied into our physical experience that are so strong that they limit our ability to be, do, or have anything in this physical realm.

So when I hear a claim that there is nothing we cannot be, do, or have, it rings as a bogus overstatement because there are definitely things we are not going to be, do, or have while in this physical realm.

There are agreements specific to this physical realm that we agreed to before emerging into this realm, and no matter how purely anyone focuses, they're not going to be able to change some of those agreements. So if someone has a desire to do so, it's simply gonna be one of those things they cannot be, do, or have.

The point that they can achieve it in another life doesn't really cut it for me because that's not the selling point of the statement " There's nothing you cannot be, do, or have," is about. It doesn't say " You can be do or have anything, but you're gonna have to wait until next lifetime"

That statement wouldn't sell many tapes, cds, and workshop seats.

[Chariot]

People are still around 20 years later not having manifested their desires because they keep waiting for the golden nugget that will magically install the answers into them.

They forget that we are "deliberate" creators and that it takes focus and effort to rewire limiting beliefs and BECOME that which they want to be.

Abe's and other messages are right on, but you have to embody the message, live it, BE it, not just keep it all up in your head on an intellectual level and wonder where the magick is. If you keep thinking those lousy, loser thoughts, you are gonna get lousy loser manifestations.

It takes actually acting on your dreams, acting on inspired ideas, moving forward, showing the U you BELIEVE and TRUST and then the manifestations, both material and otherwise, unfold like magic. You gotta make the first move, then the U bends over backwards. Show you got the faith and you will be show just how much well being exists.

No one is going to create in your reality but you no matter how many tapes, seminars and books you digest. So look within, follow your intuition and start being aware and observant of your limiting patterns and limiting thoughts. Peel them away one by one. Keep moving forward and upward. The problem lies when you expect Abe or Richard or Robert or anyone to do it for you. :joylick:

I understand all of that and that makes perfect sense. The thing I'm getting at is how there are certain frameworks that we have to work within. Sometimes people have wishes or desires that are too much of a quantum leap for them to achieve in this lifetime. I've heard plenty of well known "New Age" teachers speak of the importance of working within ones framework.

Just because you can think of something you want, doesn't mean you're going to be able to achieve it if it's not within your framework. Eckhart Tolle once spoke about how he could visualize being a world class champion fighter until he was blue in the face, but it's just not something that's going to happen for him because he doesn't have the physical capacity for it.

For example, if you're a blind person, you're not going to be able to draw photo realistic portraits at a street side portrait shop. To do so would be out of your framework, and no amount of visualizing is going to change that. It's something they're not going to be able to be, do, or have. However, they could work within their framework and create abstract paintings perhaps.

They're are tons of things we can achieve and do that are within our frameworks, but to make the claim that all of us can achieve and do anything we can think of (in this lifetime and not some other one) is irresponsible and misleading, but it does sound really good so it sells lots of tapes, cds, and workshop seats.

There are limitations to our physical environment and we knew that coming in, and to say we can be, do, or have ANYTHING, is too much of a broad overblown statement, but it sounds so good that it gets your attention and pulls you in to buy merchandise.

[Flo]

I am not sure about blind artists but I do know there are blind photographers and I have always be awed by the fact that Beethoven was deaf. :o

http://www.theblindphotographer.com/main.asp?CL=ENG

Anything is possible....and it's not an abe thing.....that promise has been around for alot longer than 20 years.

[Chariot]

Your true desires are always going to be something within your "framework." We are wired to desire what is on our divine path. That's the really cool thing!!!

Yes, and the statement we can be, do, or have ANYTHING, doesn't qualify itself by saying " within your framework." That statement makes the claim that you can be, do, or have ANYTHING....PERIOD.



This way, this way, this way, Source calls us. I highly doubt Source would be calling a blind person to paint realistic pictures as far as what a seeing person can see, but I bet they could paint realistic pictures of what they see. It's all perspective anyway.

Just because you highly doubt it, doesn't mean it's something that doesn't happen. In fact, I'd say it happens quite often which is why people are attracted to the idea that they can be, do, or have ANYTHING in the first place.



And we are unlimited even with our perceived our "framework". And hell yes, telling people that sells books and tapes and seminars. But will the people believe it? Most don't. That's the catch. ;)

They don't believe it because it's not true. It's too broad an overstatement. We cannot be, do, or have ANYTHING if that ANYTHING is too far a quantum leap and or too far out of our framework.



I am not sure about blind artists but I do know there are blind photographers and I have always be awed by the fact that Beethoven was deaf. :o

http://www.theblindphotographer.com/main.asp?CL=ENG

Anything is possible....and it's not an abe thing.....that promise has been around for alot longer than 20 years.

Beethoven went deaf around the age of 28 so he had plenty of time to learn piano before losing his hearing. Therefore his ability to compose and write music while being deaf was still within his framework, and the method he used after he went deaf, was to saw the legs off the piano, so that he could put his ear to the floor right along side, and actually feel the chords and notes to compose his works.

If anything was possible, we'd have the ability to teleport ourselves, without the aid of machines, to other countries just by thinking about it, and all it would take is enough visualizing and focusing. Yet it isn't possible because it's out of our framework. It's too far a quantum leap. So no, ANYTHING is not possible. It has to be within our framework.

[Chariot]

How do you know that people are not doing this already? I know a few. The more people who step into the morphic field of believing it is possible, the more it will become the norm and the more people will be doing it. Four minute mile and all. They used to say it was impossible.

The more people who believe something, the stronger the energy, the more it becomes true. Anything is possible with enough focused thought. Anything.

Ummmm... Okay. People are physically teleporting their bodies....:rolleyes:
If you believe that, I can see why you'd believe anything is possible...:facelol:

[Chariot]

Just because I have this view doesn't mean I don't get it. It's interesting how we Aber's tend to think we've figured out some great secret and the rest of the world is asleep and unaware. Talk about an ego trip.

And just because Abraham says something, doesn't mean it's automatically true. When someone tells me there are people living on this planet teleporting their physical bodies....Well... need I say more? :rolleyes:

Why aren't these people on television showing us how it's done? Could it be that they don't really exist? It's fine to utilize metaphysical theology to enhance our lives, but let's not lose our ability to think clearly.


The bottom line is the statement we can be, do, or have ANYTHING just isn't true. Whatever anyone decides to be, do, or have, must be within their framework to be realized. And while I do believe there's much to value regarding Abraham's teachings, some statements are too absolute and misleading. And yes, I have no problem with being right. There's value in that too.

By the way.... That's one hell of a lonnnngggg cat!....:facelol:

[Flo]

Ummmm... Okay. People are physically teleporting their bodies....:rolleyes:
If you believe that, I can see why you'd believe anything is possible...:facelol:

Done.

Bilocation

The phenomenon of bilocation is one of the most remarkable gifts attributed to Padre Pio. His appearances on various of the continents are attested by numerous eye witnesses.
Among the most remarkable of the documented cases of bilocation was the Padre's appearance in the air over San Giovanni Rotondo during World War II. While southern Italy remained in Nazi hands American bombers were given the job of attacking the city of San Giovanni Rotondo. However, when they appeared over the city and prepared to unload their munitions a brown-robed friar appeared before their aircraft. All attempts to release the bombs failed. In this way Padre Pio kept his promise to the citizens that their town would be spared. Later on, when an American airbase was established at Foggia a few miles away, one of the pilots of this incident visited the friary and found to his surprise the little friar he had seen in the air that day over San Giovanni.

Anything is possible.

[Chariot]

Chariot, you'll only ever see what you expect to see.

That's very impressive that he can do that, but I already stated that I'd expect a blind person to be able to paint in abstract style. That's pretty much a given, but for a blind person to paint in photo realistic style is still out of their framework. Sighted people can paint paintings that look identical to photographs, and you can't tell it's a painting unless you get really close. That's something a blind person just can't do.

I saw an oil painting a 2 weeks ago at an art show of a set of keys. It looked exactly like a photo. It was a photo realistic painting that took the artist 1 year to complete. There's no way a blind person could paint that type of painting. It's out of their framework. It's something they cannot be, do, or have.

What the artist in that film painted was not photo realistic. It was an abstraction of realism, and abstraction is well within the framework of a blind person, but photo realism is not.

I already made it clear that I'd expect a blind artist to be able to create abstract paintings so this example doesn't really prove anything.

[Flo]

Here is my secret. It is very simple: It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.~ Little Prince

In some ways, we are all blinded by own limiting beliefs, our own need to trust only what the 5 senses perceive is real or what the intellect can grasp.

[Chariot]

Done.

Bilocation

The phenomenon of bilocation is one of the most remarkable gifts attributed to Padre Pio. His appearances on various of the continents are attested by numerous eye witnesses.
Among the most remarkable of the documented cases of bilocation was the Padre's appearance in the air over San Giovanni Rotondo during World War II. While southern Italy remained in Nazi hands American bombers were given the job of attacking the city of San Giovanni Rotondo. However, when they appeared over the city and prepared to unload their munitions a brown-robed friar appeared before their aircraft. All attempts to release the bombs failed. In this way Padre Pio kept his promise to the citizens that their town would be spared. Later on, when an American airbase was established at Foggia a few miles away, one of the pilots of this incident visited the friary and found to his surprise the little friar he had seen in the air that day over San Giovanni.

Anything is possible.



Bilocation defined: the ability (said of certain Roman Catholic saints) to exist simultaneously in two locations.

Okay, now you're in the realm of Catholicism and that faith has so many contradictions and fairy tales not based in reality whatsoever, so that's just not proof for me. If teleportation exist, there'd be in your face evidence of it because it'd be too great a thing to ignore. So I'm afraid Bilocation doesn't qualify as proof. That's just more religious mumbo jumbo. Geez... Now I'm beginning to wonder who's really awake and whose asleep.

How can someone who believes in Catholicism have anything to do with Abraham? Doesn't that faith condemn interacting with channeled beings? I mean what attracted me to Abraham in the first place is that most of it made logical sense unlike most religions.

You should check out the dvd Zeitgeist. It does a great job of explaining how all of todays modern religions are actually based upon our ancestors worship of the sun and stars. I think it's also available on Youtube, but the Youtube version is cut up into segments, so watching it in correct order could be tricky. Religion is based on faith, and faith denounces the ability to think critically, and that's why it's dangerous, but that's a whole different topic.

[AttractionFactor]

Geez, Sierra, that was a loooooooooooooooooooong picture.

It gets an award for being so long!

http://www.randomclipart.com/clipart/images/cartoon-trophy-gold-1057.png

Size matters!

[Chariot]

Wow! Is this really where you are at?:o

Thinking critically is what is doing your head in!

The inner critic knows no mercy and does not bend with the wind.

We don't need protecting from anything.

If you're trying to do this enlightenment thang without Faith...oh boy, no wonder you is struggling with intellectual frustration...

The sticking point and the perpetual tail-chasing will NEVER stop and dissolve until you bring Faith into the equation.

Have to have Faith that there is ONLY well-being.
Have to have Faith that you are guided by your soul 24/7.
Have to have Faith that you chose to be here.
Have to have Faith that the core energy of Life is benevolent and unconditionally giving.

Gotta have Faith!

Nothing weak-minded about Faith---it is Reason's greatest wildcard.

Faith facilitates relief and appreciation.

Everytime you get on a plane you are employing Faith that it won't crash...

Yep... That's where I'm at....:grin: There are plenty of key points that Abraham speaks of that really don't require faith because I can feel the truth of it. There are plenty of things religion has done in the name of faith that feel like anything but the truth. So yeah... That's where I'm at and where I'm at is perfectly fine.

I'll say it again, what attracted me to Abraham is how logical it sounded. I could feel the truth of it because I had had thoughts and feelings along those lines since childhood. I even remember having the phrase Law of Attraction in my mind when I was 8 years old, and that was long before Abraham started speaking. People say some bizarre things that actually feel bad to me and then they cover it up by saying it's a matter of faith. In that respect faith can be used to justify some really disconnected actions. So yeah....that's where I'm at...:grin:

Chariot - You are right about everything for you. You can only speak from your reality - as it is the only one you have. There has been a stunning display of support in an attempted to coax you in shifting your perspective, believing this is what you asked for. It is clear this was never your intention.

Everything is a thought, an idea, a concept which holds unlimited possibilities. In fact, you are evidence of what was once just a thought.

Throughout all of this, however, you have demonstrated to me, on an even greater scale that one can be, and do and have whatever. Simply because you have proven yourself right to you. You have asserted that you cannot be, or do, or have whatever you want and have given yourself this very precious gift of evidence of being exactly what you want.

Paradoxes are so delicious.


Thank you for allowing Tracy...:)

[Chariot]

The more allowing and easier-going I am on myself, the more allowing and easier-going my world & life is.

My self IS the world. This earth-thing is just the game room---the room where things manifest physically.

The more allowing and easier-going I am on myself, the more allowing and easier-going my world & life is.

Rinse and repeat until Kingdom Come!

What you have come up against is NOT the limitations in Abe's teachings, but your own limitations of imagination & conception & conclusions. There is always much more room for the expansion of these---in fact, there are no limits beyond your beliefs.

So this is a good thing. It is good to come up against our own preconceived limitations/conclusions and wiggle about with them until they dissolve.

No one here at Abetalk is a pure Aber nor a fulltime slave to any teaching. Like birds building a nest, each of us pick up little twigs and pieces of fluff & string from many different teachings and we build our own unique views and philosophical frameworks out of them.

It's good to be free!

I am ever so grateful that you have this forum to hash things out. The abeforum would not have tolerated these discussions.

So indeed! LOA has responded to your desire for a kick-ass forum in which to air your gripes about the abeforum and kick around some balls related to the Abe teachings...

We are the SAS of New Thought forums. We are the Green Berets. We are the elite warriors willing to go where Thought has never been.

We allow cussing and smoking and toking and drinking and pornography.
We allow hypocrisy and arguments and anger and suicidal posts.
We allow extremely stupid & very annoying Long Cat posts (!).:mad:

The abeforum is home for the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and teacher's pets and various parrots and mocking birds.

So be it---they need homes, too!:namaste:





Thank you Skibs....;)

[Flo]

Yes, thank you skib........every word. :heart: Flo
Great reflection...I agree completely.......and if I did'nt that would be cool too. That's what is so great about us. :love:

[clarity]

Chariot, After I began reading this thread of yours, on the Abe Forum and then here on Abetalk, I received a thought form from you. Can you explain what is going on?
Christine

[Joyseeking]

I enjoyed reading this thread ! Pops to you all :applause: