The physical world vs. belief

[New Dawn Rising]

I want to understand about the power of the mind in the physical world. And at what point the laws of the physical world take over - regardless of what you believe or think.

If you listen to Abraham you would think that EVERYTHING you are living is because of your thoughts/feelings/vibrations. Like it is all mind-stuff. But if you listen closer you come across stories like the one at the bottom of this quote: f11/490.html (http://abetalk.com/f11/490.html). Here is the conclusion of that quote:

Guest: Why does a ball bearing fall apart in the life of someone who’s so on the path like Esther and Jerry are?

Abraham: Because in the physical world in which you live there is inertia and friction and gravity and things wear out. Are you suggesting that you should be of the physical world but different from it?

Guest: (silence) (some audience laughter)

Abraham: In other words, things do wear out – don’t they?

Guest: They do.

Abraham: And so which do you think is the fastest way for you to resolve that? To change the structure of the physics of the world in which you are living so that things do not wear out? Or to just tune in so that you have answers to questions before you have questions… or solutions to problems before you have problems.

Guest: It would probably be easier to just have a solution before the problem.

Abraham: Much easier. That’s part of going with the flow too, isn’t it? Not resisting the physical nature of this physical time-space reality, but understanding it, and benefiting from it.

So OK, on the one hand they acknowledge that there is a physical world that has an effect on us. On the other hand they keep saying the opposite. I'm confused.

Here is one example - acupuncture. Abraham would say that it works for us only because we believe that it will. Do you think that acupuncture affects us whether we believe it will or not? Does it really have a physical effect on our physical bodies?

I have experienced several times in my life of undergoing a treatment or taking a drug... and fully expecting some kind of result or effect or outcome... and then being totally surprised because what I was expecting didn't happen... or conversely, I was expecting nothing and then something really big happened.

So I find it hard to swallow the knee-jerk Abeish answer that these things affect you only because you believe they will.

What is really going on? Where is the line between belief and the physical world? Where do the laws of the physical world intrude into our lives regardless of our belief?

When a child drinks a bottle of blue liquid that he found under the kitchen sink, thinking its kool-aid... he's still gonna croak.

[New Dawn Rising]

Shit Goddess! You kinda went off on a tangent but I love it! You gave me so much to think about I have a million thoughts running through my head! But I'll only respond to the high points:
and she said that energy beings like me (and you, and all of us here) have really sucked up a LOT of that high vibration...and so, our vibration is so high, that it becomes a strain on our bodies which are trying hard to remain at a vibrational level that is of the physical plane, and thus subject to physical LAWS...that the universe devised, and we all buy in to so that we can have a commonality to our realities--and thus a jumping off point for our physical lives...

she said that when our energy gets sooo HIGH_-unless we actively GROUND ourselves in the energy of the EARTH (which is completely different from the spritual energy) we will seek to do things to our physical body that will bring our vibration level down and thus BALANCE us...
I love this - YES YES YES! I've known for years that one of the most important things for me to do is GROUND. I really like her explanation of what's happening to us and why it is so important to ground.

and we are the JOINING point between the elemental, and the spritual--we are grounded to the earth--but the sky (spirit) reaches down into us and thus we are animated...
I forget where I heard this but humans are like trees in that our roots sink into the earth and our branches (spirit/mind?) reaches into the heavens. I like that analogy.

And then i thought--why all this struggle in THIS TIME of extremely high energy to continue to raise our vibrations to join with spiritual and stress our bodies when we CAME HERE TO BE PHYSICAL...we didnt come here to be a physical body striving to be spiritual (which is WHAT ALL RELIGIONS teach us) we are spiritual beings who CAME HERE TO BE PHYSICAL!!!

feel the difference????
Hell yes I feel the difference. This is an excellent point.

We are paying a lot of attention to ascending spiritually, when if we just allowed ourselves to BE and enjoyed our BLISS in this time of UNIVERSAL expansion, we would ascend naturally!!!
I'm WOWed by this realization. You are so right. Reminds me of the thread started by Rewa about Simple Things... as you read through the list and everybody's post you can see that people are talking about simple physical things to connect with our physical bodies.

I realize that some of what you are asking is a different question--and in answer to that--are there physical laws--yes....is it possible to circumvent physical laws through focus and intending...yes...do most people get to a level where they can truly do that? Jesus did...so, its possible--but probable? who knows...
I am not wanting to circumvent physical laws. I'm just wanting to understand Abraham. Why on the one hand Abe leads people to believe that anything and everything happening to them and around them is a result of what is happening in their mind... and on the other hand (much more rare) they will admit to physical laws in place that have an effect on us. I like what you said: of the physical plane, and thus subject to physical LAWS...that the universe devised, and we all buy in to so that we can have a commonality to our realities. So where is the line between what is happening to us because it is the result of a physical law - and - what is happening to us because it is a matter of our belief? Or maybe its not a line but a big gray area... and I would just like to understand this piece of the puzzle better.

The first example that comes to mind is acupuncture. I had someone on TheAbeForum tell me that the ONLY reason acupuncture worked for me was because I believed it would. I don't buy it. I think that is probably what Abraham would tell me too - and I still don't think I buy it. There's something else going on. Isn't there?

Thanks Goddess! :D

[New Dawn Rising]

Maybe a better example is drugs.

I've had experience where I take a drug expecting some result... and it doesn't happen. Or I take a drug, thinking it won't do much... and it kicks my ass. (I used to be a drug abuser so have lots of experience with this. ^^ ).

We all know about the double-blind studies that drug companies do to test their drugs. We all know about the placebo effect. Obviously the placebo effect is about belief. But the placebo effect is only a small percentage. What about the rest of it? The rest of the people who are affected by the drug without the belief factor? There is some kind of physical effect regardless of what they think/believe about it.

Why is that? Am I missing something? Why does Abraham always say it is ALWAYS about belief? I don't think Abe is full of shit. I love Abe and most of what they say really resonates with me. But this piece does not make sense and I'm trying to get it.

I know I'm blabbing... but I might just figure this out on my own if I keep asking questions.

[honestly]

Maybe a better example is drugs.

I've had experience where I take a drug expecting some result... and it doesn't happen. Or I take a drug, thinking it won't do much... and it kicks my ass. (I used to be a drug abuser so have lots of experience with this. ^^ ).

We all know about the double-blind studies that drug companies do to test their drugs. We all know about the placebo effect. Obviously the placebo effect is about belief. But the placebo effect is only a small percentage. What about the rest of it? The rest of the people who are affected by the drug without the belief factor? There is some kind of physical effect regardless of what they think/believe about it.

Why is that? Am I missing something? Why does Abraham always say it is ALWAYS about belief? I don't think Abe is full of shit. I love Abe and most of what they say really resonates with me. But this piece does not make sense and I'm trying to get it.

I know I'm blabbing... but I might just figure this out on my own if I keep asking questions.
The physical effect is attracted by them though. They may not of believed that the drug would cause the physical affect, but their overall vibration attracted it. An example is when you feel good, you attract good things. But when you're worrying about things, you attract things like a broken leg or sickness. Know what I mean? That's all I have to add for now. :D

Love, Ronald

[Antonio_4]

I LOVE this thread!!!!

Great question New Dawn Rising! And Rocknrollgoddess, you rock! You probably already know that!
I LOVE what you said about the balancing inside us. It makes complete sense to me.

I guess it's hard for us to view it from our position. A way to maybe see it thru human eyes, is like you said: It's a wide perspective grey area, where many things come in to consideration.
I'm sure the best way to see it is to align yourself more and more. Only then you get to make that grey area into a clear line where all makes sense!

I came to believe, even before Abraham sprinkled his wonderful words on me, that my spiritual Me pushed me in this direction that I am heading today. And it did it by setting up a physical challenge.
I started losing my pigment when I was 6 years old, and it took me 12 years, and so my entire youth, to look the way I look now. The whole experience was painful back then, but all I see today is great and wonderful contrast. It puts a huge smile on my face.
And so I had the discussion with someone once, who told me: "Your inner being wouldn't do that, because it loves you and wants the best for you". I'm pretty sure my parents never thought about the skin disorder before I had it. Both of them never heard of it before.
That is what left me questioning how and why on early stage. Was it something that was caused by me, or maybe my parents? Or was it the other Me? I know NOW, that I would choose to have the disorder a million times over not having it. Simply because I used the contrast!
Simply because I'm interacting on this site with wonderful people who all know what Life really means. Simply because I feel fucking GREAT, no matter what! Simply because I see Life thru the eyes of source better and better! Simply because I know what will come Now!!!!

One of the main characters of the teachings of Ho'oponopono (a Hawaiian cleaning and healing method) says that most of the times we don't know if we do things either by our memories and "programs" in our head, or intention/inspiration from our higher Selves. "How do you know if something is from our mind, or the mind of our Divine?"
Do you get cancer by thinking cancer, or do you get cancer as a sort of challenge? With your inner being knowing that it will take controll and come out better out of it. He recommends to clean up the memories and to align.